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Kemi Badenoch clashes with Kay Burley over Tory bid to ban post-op trans people in women-only spaces - saying 'putting on different clothes doesn't make you transgender'

4 months ago 18

Kemi Badenoch was embroiled in a series of combative clashes today as she vowed to overhaul gender laws so they cannot be exploited by 'predators'.

A landmark change would rewrite part of the Equality Act so transgender women can be blocked from entering female-only spaces - such as single-sex hospital wards, rape crisis centres, prison cells and lavatories - and from competing in women's sports.

That would cover transgender women who have had reconstructive surgery and those who have a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) stating that they have changed gender.

The Tories want to make clear that the protected characteristic of 'sex' in the Equality Act refers to 'biological sex' and is not modified by a GRC.

Such an update to the 2010 legislation was backed by Britain's equalities watchdog, the Equality and Human Rights Commission, in April last year. 

The new law would apply across the UK - in a move certain to enrage the SNP after its abortive effort to impose much looser rules. 

At present, if organisers try to block transgender women from female-only spaces, they face legal challenges and being sued for discrimination.

Ms Badenoch had a tense exchange with Sky News' Kay Burley as she challenged her suggestion that the change was addressing 'extreme cases'. 

She insisted men were 'exploiting loopholes in the law by calling themselves trans'. 

In a round of interviews, she said: 'Just putting on a different set of clothes does not make you transgender.'

Ms Badenoch said transgender athletes would not be 'stopped from competing' but would in some cases have to be classified as their biological sex.

She added: 'What we are trying to stop is the scenario where we see very obvious unfair advantages, people who have gone through male puberty towering over fragile, and in some cases much, much smaller females.'

Rishi Sunak has moved to put so-called culture wars at the heart of the election battle, heaping pressure on Keir Starmer to spell out his position.

Gender laws are being exploited by 'predators', Kemi Badenoch warned today - as the Tories vowed to pass a law defining sex as biological

Ms Badenoch said transgender athletes would not be 'stopped from competing' but would in some cases have to be classified as their biological sex

The landmark change would help safeguard girls' and women-only spaces for biological females by stopping sex being conflated with gender identity, the Prime Minister said

Ms Badenoch said equalities law was having 'a lot of problems right now', stating that there are 'rapists being put in women's prisons on the basis that they are self-identifying'.

Saying adjusting the legislation would bring clarity, she told BBC Radio Four's Today programme: 'With public authorities, with prisons, if you are a man, you're going to a man's prison. If you're a woman, you go to a women's prison.'

Asked about what would happen if someone born male had undergone gender reassignment surgery, Ms Badenoch indicated they would still go to a men's prison but there could be 'special circumstances' created for them such as more privacy and separate areas.

She added: 'What we find is that we don't have actually trans men in men's prison, and the reason why is because people understand that biology does matter'.

She said a rape crisis centre would be able to decide what to do.

Ms Badenoch said: 'We are creating the space for people to choose what it is they want to do. If a rape crisis centre decides that it wants to allow a trans woman with a gender recognition certificate, they will be able to do so. If they choose not to, then they can't be sued for that. That is what we're doing.

'We're not – and it is very important – we are not trying to stop trans people from being able to live their lives as they wish. What we are trying to stop is people exploiting the law.'

However, Ms Badenoch was less clear on what kind of paperwork people would need to show to use single-sex spaces under Conservative plans.

She insisted 'this is not a paperwork issue' as she was challenged repeatedly whether only an original birth certificate would be accepted.

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'The paperwork that explains what your legal sex is is your birth certificate.'

She was pressed on which version of a birth certificate this means, given that it can be amended after someone's gender change has been legally recognised.

Ms Badenoch replied: 'What you are describing is a hypothetical scenario, assuming that when people go into rape crisis centres they're bringing in birth certificates, they're bringing in gender recognition certificates.

'What is happening at the moment is that people come to the centres and they are visibly of a different sex. You don't always need your birth certificate when you're going to the toilet and so on and so forth.

'So the point I'm making is about the everyday scenarios people will be experiencing.'

Ms Badenoch had a tense exchange with Sky News ' Kay Burley as she challenged her suggestion that the change was addressing 'extreme cases'

She continued: 'This is not a paperwork issue. This is a practical issue.'

Mr Sunak would kick-start the process for new primary legislation to clarify the law within days of a Conservative government being re-elected. 

Gender-critical campaigners, including former British Olympic swimmer Sharron Davies, welcomed the pledge as a victory for 'common sense'.

The move is the Tories' latest bid to put clear blue water between them and Labour ahead of polling day on July 4.

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has previously suggested that no such law change was needed, having stated in 2022 that 'trans women are women' and that it's wrong to say that 'only women have a cervix'.

Writing in today's Mail, Health Secretary Victoria Atkins says: 'Labour would take this right back to square one. For years, they have aided and abetted those who put ideology above scientific facts.'

In August last year, the Mail revealed how shocking guidance drawn up by NHS chiefs meant patients who only occasionally identify as women are allowed to share female-only wards. This was regardless of whether they had had surgery or legally changed sex.

The project to rewrite part of the Equality Act on the basis of biological sex rather than gender identity was initially proposed by equalities minister Kemi Badenoch.

Last night she said: 'Whether it is rapists being housed in women's prisons, or instances of men playing in women's sports where they have an unfair advantage, it is clear that public authorities and regulatory bodies are confused about what the law says on sex and gender and when to act – often for fear of being accused of transphobia, or not being inclusive.

'That is why we are today pledging that, if we form a government after the election, we will clarify that sex in the law means biological sex and not new, redefined meanings of the word.'

Mr Sunak added: 'The safety of women and girls is too important to allow the current confusion around definitions of sex and gender to persist.'

In April last year, the Equality and Human Rights Commission backed the proposed change.

Ms Davies, who has been campaigning to ensure trans women can't compete in women's sport, said: 'I'm extremely pleased. There's a very big difference between wanting to be something and actually being something.

'I very much hope if it's clarified we can now go after any and all sporting organisations that are discriminating against biological females by not offering equal opportunities of success in their own competitions, by allowing males in categories for females.'

Stephanie Davies-Arai, of Transgender Trend, said: 'This is a return to common sense and reality from the Government.'

Heather Binning, of the Women's Rights Network, said: 'We welcome any party who pledges to preserve sex-based rights.'

The sex of those with a Gender Recognition Certificate will still align with their acquired gender in law outside the Equality Act, for example marriage law, as is the status quo.

Writing in today's Mail, Health Secretary Victoria Atkins said that Labour would take us back to square one 

Q&A

What is being proposed?

That new legislation is passed clarifying that 'sex' (male/female, man/woman) as referenced in the Equality Act 2010 refers to 'biological sex' and is not modified by a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).

Why is it needed?

It will clarify the law so that sex is not confused with gender and to stop it being interpreted as anything other than 'biological sex' assigned to someone at birth. The clarification will make it simpler for organisations to provide single-sex services and spaces because they will have more legal justification for excluding people from certain spaces based on their 'biological sex' at birth.

How will it happen?

A new piece of primary legislation, potentially only one or two sentences long, would be passed in Parliament clarifying that 'sex' in the Act refers to 'biological sex'.

Why hasn't this already been done?

This is unclear. Rishi Sunak signalled his support for the change last year. The election has pushed the issue up the agenda as a way of differentiating the Tories from Labour.

What has the Equality and Human Rights Commission said?

In April last year, Baroness Kishwer Falkner, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, wrote to ministers to recommend updating legislation to make clear that 'sex' refers to 'biological sex'.

She proposed re-writing the 2010 Equality Act to bring clarity in contested areas such as trans women being able to access women's-only wards in hospitals, or competing in women's sports.

Baroness Falkner said there was no need 'for conflict between women’s rights and the rights of trans people' but added there was 'ambiguity and confusion about what the Act means for both groups'.

But transgender groups hit out at Baroness Falkner for supporting legal reforms that could exclude trans women from women's-only spaces.

Mermaids, a British charity that supports transgender children and young people, said: 'It's extremely distressing to see the UK's equality watchdog, the EHRC, seeking to strip trans people's rights from the Equality Act 2010.

'By redefining sex, they support removing the rights and protections trans people have had for over a decade.'

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